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I used to have someone in my church who took care of my financial needs he's married and while we haven't done anything sexually there's always been tension between us gang gang we even we eventually stopped speaking because we felt guilty and he cut off all financial support probably because his wife was asking questions now I'm in a situation where I need urgent financial help and I have no one else who can support me he's reached out a few times under the disguise of wanting to do Bible study but I've declined I know he wants me this is crazy and I know it's wrong but I'm desperate what should I do the fact that I'm a thief doesn't mean I can't tell you not to steal right what I cannot do is judge you and say you're a thief you're a terrible person you're going to go to hell unfilter hello and welcome to another episode of your favorite podcast um PF Unfiltered hi everybody uhy I I want to say something real quick we've been getting great feedback awesome from people and we want to show that we're implementing the feedback that we've received so my name is tund mola AKA tarx for those that are intimate um I am joined by my amazing co-host the super superar Esther Griffin Esther Griffin oh don't start this ah we just started Esther Griffin yeah did you know her name is Griffin yeah Griffin yeah I in griffindor okay so for those there's a trend yeah a last amazing Co that was y some of you might know as Shan alen Taylor alen Taylor Griffin I see I see the I see the I'm sorry what what are you trying to say I'm just saying I don't understand biggest last names um sorry and obviously you guys know our amazing um you know PF Pastor FEI PF Pastor Femi your day your day is just breaking yeah just catching that wow no k no you you KN you yeah I knew I I call him Pastor Uncle PF yeah there there's so many variations of it lost track but basically my name is feo I serve as the lead Pastor so my title is Pastor my name is FEI PF is not my name oh so fo O type no not fo O Okay f as in Fe o as in not fo somebody say F anyways any you if somebody came up to me I said f that person will receive a blessing a blessing I'll cast out the demon with my fist wow okay this is BEC intense yes um and also we have to pay I I was just joking I don't cast I mean but like you know like you take only drop kicks exact yeah exactly um we have to pay some bills yeah even though we're not getting paid but the podcast is sponsored guys um yes it is sponsored so this sponsor what exactly do they give us Honestly by I I don't know what oh oh I know what bar Avenue I thought you talking about the other sponsor is a responsible corporate system absolutely their give uh top top dollar and I guess the question is like so what's the are there any like discounts or promo codes that we can share with the with the listeners and and and and the viewers so they can everything that comes out of Barrow Avenue is Anointed is what anointed anointed that's that's that's the wait so are we selling anointing or did I say I was selling anointing I said everything that comes out of bar Rue is Anointed anointed to do what that's a good question how do you go from Cake to sell it anointing because this sister is very holy I just didn't understand please we're not selling anting we are just baking it hey Jesus um this episode is going to be really interesting yes uh but just to show that we're taking feedback right and we're implementing the feedback so um thank you guys keep it coming I think production they call it like the put the comments in the post notes yeah is that what it is post notes no I've gr put the comments in the comment section buddy nah there's postn notes for sure somewhere we put stuff in the post notes wo so what what a W uh it's been a while guys with us no this is not this is not this is not the work this is this this is not this is something else no no no it's not no um so this episode PF uh we've been going through yeah and I think the last two or three episodes um not with as much consisten as we should have but we've been going through this storytelling yeah where we grab stories that are from online and we get your unfiltered um reaction to it obviously with the premise being being the word of course um we have two stories today do you want to read the first one or you know my reading skills are a bit your reading skills are great if you ask me to do math I can do that English is different what is 15 * 7 please I back don't burst me here wow you guys are just we okay we're ready we're ready we're ready are we recording all this no how we do this no recording no there's no way we can do this team okay so the first one that we have here is Oh I thought I was ready it went away sorry guys you want me to yeah bring it up okay again don't ask us got dies say say crazy place out there sometimes you guys have been suffing the Deep Web lot's been going on okay I found it things are happening all right so um this is our first dilemma all right I used to have someone in my church who took care of my financial needs he's married and while we haven't done anything sexually there's always been tension between us gang gang we even we eventually stopped speaking because we felt guilty and he cut off all financial support probably because his wife was asking questions now I'm in a situation where I need urgent financial help and I have no one else who can support me he's reached out a few times under the disguise of wanting to do Bible study but I've declined I know he wants me this is crazy and I know it's wrong but I'm desperate what should I do it is wrong it is wrong it is wrong you don't need me to tell you what to do struggl what financially like he used to then she should go and pray to the Lord and ask the Lord to help her wow I will assume here that she has probably tried clearly she hasn't so wait so what if she came to your office what it like this is I will tell her to leave my office and go and pray mercy of God no but seriously speaking and and I I don't I don't believe right that she doesn't know what to do MH right I think she just wants to waste my time in what way why am I engaging in a conversation where you know the answer like what are you asking me for they haven't to be I mean what they haven't done anything um even though they haven't done they wait wait wa wait wait wait so so so so physical interaction is the lit most test of what you talking what I'm saying is if the guy used to maybe help out of the abundance of his Spirit he wasn't helping out of the abundance of his spirit because he's she's always she's already let us know that because his wife was asking questions he withdrew the financial support I mean to be fair we don't know how accurate this woman story what perspective so so so so guys okay so not to sound harsh right if somebody came to me with this yeah right I would say to them you know the right thing to do right ask God to help you do the right thing which is for those that in that situation for which is you know it is what you're doing you feel already so this is the thing when somebody comes and asks me a question many times right it is not because they don't know the right answer many times it's because they're looking for validation for the wrong answer that's right they want me to say to them it's okay to do this or okay to do that right they want you to validate what they have read in the Bible is wrong what they have received from the Holy Spirit as wrong but they're so determined to do it they're hoping that you know if you say it's okay then go ahead and do it then they have permission to do it then they have permission to do it but what I'm saying is don't bring to me what the Bible already told you what the Holy Spirit already told you because all I'm going to say to you is what the Bible says to you and what the holy spirit says to you and I know this may sound if you squint it may look ambiguous when your eyes are wide open you can see wrong all over it right right if you if you if you look at it and say well this is ambiguous then you might wonder what is the right thing to do there then what would you say about the financial support part because now she needs help is it possible that she this is somebody who is saying right there's sexual tension between us from her perspective yeah from her perspective this somebody who is saying that the um the man's wife found out and he cut off financial support then she says okay now I'm having trouble this guy has tried to reach out to me under the guys of Bible study MH can I go and ask him I know he wants me yeah yeah I see what you say yeah I know he wants me so what she wants to do is to leverage his attraction to her to get money off of him yeah like it's wrong on every level yeah is wrong spiritually is wrong physically is wrong even in the world it is wrong that's borderline blackmail but then what is the direction that she would go towards in terms of getting financial help not this direction that's but then I think there should be an alternative like we should there should be a replacement right you're not doing right no no no no no no no no you see that's the thing right you're now going to come down and play ball on the field you're not meant to be playing ball on right she has a financial problem let her go to God because if she had gone to God God would not have told her to go to meet the married man who she knows wants her right so the fact that she's going to meet the guy who she knows wants her then I know she has not prayed so first all she should go and pray she should do what we all do when we have financial problems oh we all do yes well what some of us okay I don't know about you I've run to the provider straight say it again I've run to the provider this girl think provider is the other woman's husband okay I'm not let me play I'm not going to for the sake of obviously the the the purpose of this podcast I'm not going to say let me play Devil's Advocate please don't but let me play ati's Advocate okay Auntie Jama let's what if you know that scripture that says I know what it's I know it's wrong I know what is right but I do what is wron right if she quotes that scripture right and then goes ahead and says look I know I know this is wrong I know this is I shouldn't do this but I'm in bind and clearly po as lowy kind of giv a pass let me just not sleep with him get the financial help I need and then cut what what is not clear to me is what what is the pastor's role in this conversation the advisor yeah she's coming to you for help yeah but I've already given her advice but you didn't give her advice what did I say you give her the truth she didn't want the truth she wanted you to then that's my so that's the thing D my problem is not to keep talking right until you get me to say what you want that's not my responsibility my respons to tell you the truth depending on my patience on any given day I can tell the truth to you one time or 10 times right but the truth is the truth I can say it in English I can say it in EUR I can say it in Pigeon English I can say it on my chair I can say it standing on my desk but it's still the truth it's not going to change and it's not a wicked truth it's not a mean truth it's not a a dismissive truth it is the truth right you're trying to leverage something to get money out of this person right yeah it's wrong yeah I would go and pray because a what do you need this money for first of all right what is so desperate that you're going to result to doing something that you know is a problem to get the money right is it a lot people do that again I don't dispute yeah that a lot of people do it does not make it right yeah that a lot of people do desperate things does not make desperate things right now I'm not sitting down here and saying I've never done anything desperate or I've never done anything anything that was wrong that's not my point right this is this is the problem right that that we have Society has made it so that if you are not a saint you cannot speak right so because I am not perfect I am not competence to give counsel right I can give you counsel what I cannot do is Judge you yeah just what I'm saying the fact that I'm a thief doesn't mean I can't tell you not to steal right what I cannot do is judge you and say you're a thief you're a terrible person you're going to go to hell right but I can tell you stealing is wrong the fact that I steal doesn't make it right yeah so this person right who is doing this thing it's wrong it's it's wrong in the morning it's wrong in the evening it's wrong in any time of the day any day of the week any week of the year right it's wrong it's not it's wrong against herself it's wrong against the man's wife is wrong against the man everybody involved this is wrong for them to them right it's exploitative it's manipulative is is is is is borderline illegal right on every level is wrong I agree with you but I'm still left with the matter that she's kind of now here left on her own to kind of figure it out well again right we have to be careful right because you see you're going to follow this thing down the hole until the until you get to the point saying that well she's so desperate she has no choice she can go and meet the married man no no but I think but that's but that's where it's going right because because at the end of the you say to somebody go and pray mhm right like go and pray yes right or let's pray together right why what what else are you supposed to do for her what else are you supposed to say to her what about the church providing her with help she she hasn't asked the church for help what she's came to do is to ask me if she should hit a hit up a married man right for money right yes she hasn't told me what she wants to do with the money okay so stand in her place and tell me what you want to do with the money she wants to pay her bills okay I'll send her to the Ben what bills her rent where where where does she live okay so what she said was Odilia yeah no no no no wait you guys are you guys are tripping I I I I don't mean to come across unsympathetic right but I'm a little frustrated with the idea that you know what is wrong right if you need moneyy and you say PF I'm struggling with my bills can you help me I will gladly help you yeah because here when you come to me and try to get me to validate what you already know wrong that that that frustrates me I just want to say here she says now I'm in a situation where I need urgent financial help it sounds I have no one else who can support I don't I I guess is it okay if what do youan who can I'm so sorry who can support who can is this adult right she's an adult so why can't she support herself questions and need answers you I'm saying it's something thing to say somebody who can help me right I need help someone who can support me yeah and to be fair if you look earlier on that story she did say used sugar dadd he did that that so that is the problem right here this is this is coming across to me as somebody who has a sense of entitlement and is looking for somebody to take responsibility for her that's how it's coming across that's the vibe I'm getting from that thing I'm not getting the vibe of somebody who is in trouble and needs help I'm getting the vibe of somebody who is used to sugar daddies or whoever the Ben the benefactor of that right and now she's stuck right and she's looking for another person to support her if you needed help now you wouldn't go around saying I need somebody to support me you say I need someone to assist me yeah I need some help the language would be different exactly the language is is one of the tellers yeah anyway so I'm I'm actually you curious like and this is a slight segue in your position as a pastor do you feel like is there any pressure because you know the congregation sometimes don't necessarily look at you as just as just like a COR me if I'm wrong a a a Shepherd they're looking at you as okay like give me the answer I need right and if you don't give me the answer I need then I don't know whatever there's always pressure to to to to give answers but the only pressure that I feel yeah is a to be truthful and to represent Christ that's the only pressure I feel right so that means that I ask myself and and this may sound a little corny but this is what I do how can I really help you right that that is always my goal in every interaction with everybody how can I really help you sometimes I have to look beyond what you are asking for sometimes I have to read between the lines right but sometimes I have to just be very Stern and say this is not um the person asking is not is not being sincere right and they're not on a tenable path that I can in good conscience represent Christ by enabling them right sometimes yeah and this is my wife shared this story with me I'm not great with the Sciences there's a stage in the development of a caterpillar of a of a butterfly where it's it's it's in a cocoon and has to come out of the Cocoon and if you if you see the little creature trying to come out of that cocon your instinct is to help it but the minute you try to help it right you actually do me to dying because that struggle is what builds the strength in its wings if you deprive it of that struggle its wings will not properly develop and it will never be able to fly and some insect is going to come and and eat it because it's brightly colored and it's crawling around on the ground right so sometimes I have to be conscious of we're helping this person um be counterproductive yeah right in this particular scenario this young lady or older lady or whoever she is comes to me right basically reciting this yeah my irritation and my frustration will be as you have seen first of all why are you trying to get me to validate what you already know is wrong that would irritate me I think that is patronizing I think you're operating on the presumption that I'm stupid right why are you coming to a pastor what do you expect a pastor to say right you know what I'm going to say right so why are you bringing that to me unless you look at me as the kind of person that will tell you to go and do what you should not be doing yeah or you prom or she promises that once I get paid I'm going to pay pay a church a certain percentage of right what whatever the case may be right that would that would irritate me just because I'm human right but then I would say to this person have you prayed about it and not in a religious way or self-righteous way but have you prayed about it and that question that I ask would not just be to find out if she has engaged in the activity of prayer what is her perspective on prayer what is her attitude on prayer right because if she if you ask a question about have you prayed about it and and the person rolls their eyes for example it says a lot about what they think about prayer now it may not mean that they are disdainful of prayer may be that they have prayed and they're tired of prayer right but there would be a series of questions and what is there will come out it always does right and the idea that you say you're looking for somebody to support you right would make me please I'm looking for somebody to support me and my husband I beg you your your husband looking for a soft life so you guys what I'm saying okay what if that situation what if it was a couple it was her and her husband looking for somebody to support them why should anybody support you right what what you should be looking for right is how to support yourself yeah right it is how to get on your feet I will help you with that to the extent that God has given me the grace to help you with that but I am not going to support you so what's frustrating for you is that the fact that you're looking for somebody else to knowingly knowing knly right looking for someone else right to take up your responsibilities right and again yeah I understand that there's a level of desperation where people don't care about the about a lot of things I I get that and that's fine right nobody's perfect but there's just something about this about the tone of this that's just that's just robbing maybe it's the I know he wants me right yeah looking for somebody to support me maybe that is what is is robbing me the wrong way it's probably true and that's the thing though that that tells you again the kind of the mind of the person right I'm going to go ask him for money I know he wants me it tells you the mind of the person that we're talking about here right this is a a a what do you call these uh these folks that um uh uh I don't know the terminology R wrong people I don't know I don't know no gold digger is um I don't know but seems very exploitative right not for when oh okay yeah it just it just seems like I'm going to exploit his attraction from me to get money from him okay not Devil's Advocates was I'm trying to figure out the right wayil I want to know who you want to advocate for just not devil let me just ADV play advoc advocation m is there any responsibility on UNC do you know I mean I know we've talked about the the lady to support her because the guy the guy that knows B is reaching out for is the way he's talking about reaching out to her for Bible study because him to he has a problem with each other you know what I'm saying well he's not the one in front of me he's I was trying to flip it no no so this is the thing that I I never counsel other people through the person in front of me right I deal with the person in front of me right and when the uncle sits in front of me then I deal with Uncle cuz he has a problem problems of his own I I really don't uncle is not here right and he's not asking any questions right yeah uncle in a moment of weakness reached out to this girl right twice and thank God God used her she said I don't want to do Bible study with you right yeah yeah I don't want to do Bible study with you I with you no we give glory to God on our behalf but then she turns around and says I'm looking for somebody to support me grown as person like you well I mean she's trying to do the right thing that's why she rejected him but now she needs twice anyways on to the next on to the next to the next okay that that was not really that was more frustrating for you so we have another scenario you want me to read this one no you got it all right so this one is uh interesting one my youngest sister why did you he's okay I'm just trying to imagine Auntie if if that is a real person right and I'm sure she is and I don't mean to sound un sympathetic right I'm a little irritated by your tone but let's have a conversation has there been like people parallel experience stories that you've witnessed has made it maybe made it a little bit more annoying no oh no I mean obviously you can't say no no I actually haven't been had to deal with a scenario like that but what I've had to deal with are folks who who know they're doing the wrong thing right and they stand on it in a way that is problematic right I don't know if it's to call them social paaths or Psychopaths right but they just really don't care about anybody right and they will come to me and say yes now I put a knife in his throat you know and I'm like what you know and and there's almost like a looking at you like you should know you should like a justification that he did this so this is why my respon there's no justification for it but they are trying to justify it they're not they're just saying I did it and I did it because you know why not wow and and well why they looking at you like what you going to do about it yeah I don't know how to explain it there's just a a brazenness sometimes are they coming to you to brag like okay I did it it comes up sometimes in the context of other things right this what I believe I believe that all of us are human and all of us make mistakes and all of us intentionally sin right but I worry when you sin and you really don't care about if anybody gets hurt right or if any um um or if it's contrary to God's word you just really don't care about anybody that I struggle with folks who don't care about people I have a question would you care if they were unbelievers or is it in the context of them being Believers that you care makes it a little like a bit worse cuz you should know right I I I I care about people not see let me tell you something if you if you if you if you steal from me MH and you hide it from me I have more regard for you for you than the person who steals from me and tells me to my face I stole from you what are you going to do about it just I'm saying yeah you stealing from me and hiding it from me says you have a need but you care about me enough to not want to hurt me with what you've done does that make sense or you have shame inter what whatever the case may be right no makes sense I just I just you're trying to get what you want without causing me pain do you get that's the person that comes to your front and say I stole it look at your I'm wearing it what are you going to do about it it's giving body in Schoop yeah but also like what do you expect if like I have to put it in the contents of a Believer and unbeliever if it's unbeliever then it's the same thing it's like it's like people who would kill other people right for me right taking another person's life yeah should move you but for some people it doesn't move them I'm saying and I have no expectation that it would move no I I expect it to move every human being and if if you can take life without it moving you there's something broken about you even the people in the military right they have to go through psychological training to make it okay for them to take life because it is not normal for human beings to be comfortable with taking another human being's life right our culture has acclimatized us to not taking life if you are able without any sense of remorse to take life right to actually stop another person from to on alive another person yeah no I'm going to look at you sideways it doesn't matter whether you're a Believer or unbeliever right because I I I how you know what soldiers have to go through to learn how to pull a trigger with another person in front them CU it's not a natural instinct right they want to develop it and turn it into muscle memory you see somebody who looks like the enemy you shoot right I disagree you disagree okay why is it why do we say only cowards shoot people in the back because you weren't bold enough to shoot them in the face exactly or exactly you're smart enough to know if I shoot them in the face I'm going lose no no no no because you know that pulling a trigger on somebody looking at you in the eye is extremely difficult right is not normal I can't I don't agree with that okay and this say so your disagreement Believers should be able to kill without remorse I think that sensitivity is not there the way that really yes because I I grew up in a hood so what is humanity do what is humanity what does it mean to be human I mean I I don't know how to explain I don't know in in this context I can't explain that okay okay but this is the example that I thought about in terms of bi Biblical context I thought about um um Kane and abble yeah okay right sin came into the world he killed his brother M he got the balls he did it then what happened the Lord rebuked him but what was his in when the Lord came mhm after he killed his brother yeah what was his attitude nonchalant indifferent indifferent but he didn't go to God and said yo did you see how I took Kane out how I took Abel out yeah but he also wasn't hiding either he wasn't hiding because you can't hide from God right but he didn't how do I put it when God said where is your brother mhm he could have said I killed him what did he say my brother oh yeah yeah right that's bold though that's a for you to say that to the almighty God that's a bold statement for you to boldly say I'm not I couldn't even say that to my mom if she asked me what my sister wants to say I'm not my sister I agree with you it is bold right but what I'm saying that it is not human it is not human nature but sinful nature it's another level of sinful nature is is the depravity of sinful nature so in the same context I say for people in the hood that they kill people right right I've seen people shoot other people wait wait wait let's not talk about that but but this is a question are you saying that those guys who take a gun right and shoot somebody and feel nothing are normal people I would say it's normal I mean I mean no let me is normal it's not it's normal but that that is I think normal is subjective no man it's not are you looking for forgive me are you looking for situations where they might be they might have done that that looked like it was Cod blooded but there was a deeper reason behind is that what you're saying I think normal is subjective I think people's normal is is contingent on their circumstance in some hoods it is normal to see people being killed and being shot okay that's what we're talking we're talking about you shooting and killing people yes but we're talking about a overall context of someone killing someone and that being no no we're talking about the person who did The Killing not being a witness to it so okay the person that did The Killing I think there is a normal phenomenon for there to be people that think it's normal to kill people and are okay with that okay let's not be the point but but but but there is a reason why men go to war legal legalize what yes legal and they come back traumatized I agree okay if you can pull a bullet and kill somebody who's done nothing wrong to you yeah right and you don't have to drown your you don't have to go all night on a on a bender drinking until you are stupid or go do crack and cocaine all night yeah you know you just shoot somebody and you're just like you know you go to service the next morning feel nothing yeah that that that that that a psych I would say that's a psychopath but that's what I'm talking about what what saying no honestly I want something real quick I am happy is that my camera typically it's always today it's always today that's the that's the only thing that's my only take away you see this I thank God that that Esther he's Esther no but but but but but but but that's that's true but this is my this I just want to be clear so you're saying right that there are people who can kill other people and feel nothing and that's normal like and that's normal I guess he depending on the on where they grow up yeah I feel like it's like oh whatever like I killed you so what what who is esta from I don't know cuz I kind look atev okay let's say that I grew up in Washington DC in the 90s you grew up in DC in the 90s in the 90s you could have grown up in this '90s how old are you I was born in the9 exactly so you grew up in so like you were like when I when on my sixth birthday I could go outside and see um like needles that and you hear shootings all the time and stuff like that you come out but again so somebody of the road PR I mean this is just my life so so wait wait so so so when I've been in therapy so it's like so SOA wait guys so somebody shoots another person and the person dies yeah do you follow them home and make sure that they're normal right no as I'm trying to understand how you know that they're normal they come out the next day okay and you don't know how much medication they've had all night yeah you're not previous to that information I'm pretty sure they smoked a little weed um it's not normal to kill not normal to take another person's life it's not okay just to kind of like talk to ask your therapist about it all right are you still in therapy I am I'm sorry you didn't have to disclose that I'm sorry I didn't know I mean it's not shout out to you though Jesus in why why are you shouting out to in therapy like how do we make to therapy such like I don't understand I don't understand I I'm not trying to I'm not a war about say shout out for why do we make you see this this is the problem right when we when we make therapy seem like this thing right then people approach it like this thing and it's not really a thing it's not really a thing we need to normalize talk to about things that's why I said shout out that's the point you were shouting out for going to therapy do you do you shout out for to to somebody who had breakfast I'm not going to lie toast I don't eat breakfast of like T shout out to you for having breakfast oh my God man no for real like I'm only problem actually I do I think so I'm trying to okay wait so let's go to the next one next guys next yeah let's go okay this one is yeah um my youngest sister converted to Islam after marrying a Muslim man right okay okay MH our family has always been devout Christians right and my parents refuse to acknowledge your choice right family gatherings have become tense with constant arguments about salvation and Faith she recently told me that she feels like she has to choose between her husband's family and us right I love her mhm but I feel torn between supporting her and standing firm in my beliefs uh how do I show her love without compromising on my faith what what is the issue like like what part of your faith is compromised by showing love to somebody who wants to be a Muslim what part of your faith is compromised thinking that that I don't want I I don't know this is my traditional assumption that okay I know that they might be going to a place that is different from where I'm going to so maybe it's hard to and you think fighting them will stop them from going there well fighting might be subjective maybe she just doesn't feel like ostracizing her will make her not go there or maybe if you're if she's repeatedly saying look guys like I change your like you know like preaching to them make her not go oh make maybe make the I don't know I'm trying to I'm trying to understand the Dilemma so okay um let me see if I can like I guess figure I'm assuming this person is a is a real Christian right cuz they sound what do you mean by a real Christian because a real Christian knows that it is because of the love that you show to one another that they will say you my followers a real Christian knows a real Christian knows that the Bible says that if you were to marry an unbeliever and the unbelieving spouse does not divorce you don't divorce them love them correct and and and by your conduct they will they may be transformed sorry quick show show of hands here if you knew what what P if you're a real Christian you should know what P just said sure of us incling production if you knew where PF got that from okay there's one person out I knew that scripture where is it wait PA it is in Corin you didn't know did she get it she got it okay she get come on PF so so this is my problem right this is my problem right with the assumption that by ostracizing how did God win us over by he first loved us the Bible says that God is Not um slack yeah to bring judgment on us slack that quick he's not slack he's not slack he's not he's not slow sluggish negative to bring judgment but he's exercising patience that we may come to repentance yeah right why do we think by coming down on this person like a ton of bricks that is going to bring them to repentance when God did not do that to us I'm not getting that vibe I think she's that's not what she's saying like she's like so for example that I thought of let's say that what she said that there's so much tension in the when the girl comes to the house her parents they arguing look I read it yeah yeah you're right you're right she's describing a very contentious tense constant arguments about salvation and Faith yeah I mean we have we have like tense conversations I also think it's a lack of understand like when we think about like who God is and the truth about who he is right I think automatically when you say Jesus Christ is the way the truth of life every other religion is false mhm that is like Christianity in itself is offensive I I I disagree with that well based on the Bible I I disagree with that since I I I I strongly disagree with that because when I say that Jesus Christ this is what Jesus Christ said I am the way the truth and the life nobody comes to the father except through me MH how many religions are trying to get to the father so many no they're not where do you think they're trying to get to not to the father but I'm just curious where you so where are they trying to get to you tell me it's not to the father okay how many religions call god father not I I know Islam does not okay so this is what Jesus Christ said nobody comes to the father except through me right Jews right do not acknowledge God in the as father they do as father but not in the way that Jesus acknowledged God as father right you can come to God then many religions that aspire to connect and interact with God yes right but that father son relationship that Christians have as the result of the adoption into the family of God that's what Jesus Christ was referring to right the Bible says the heavens declared the glory of the Lord the firmament shows forth his handy work anybody can conceive of God just by looking at the stars and the skies but to come into a son and father relationship you have to go through Christ full stop okay now that you've said that you've made my point this is my point right in every other religion even though they may not call him father they think about him in the way that he is the creator of the universe yeah and so they know him by Creator they know him by the other names we know him by Creator father again right you have to make that distinction because that distinction is important it is not is not semantics I agree I agree okay so Creator yes yeah Jesus didn't say nobody can know you cannot come to him as Creator mhm so nobody can come to the father except through me right you can go to God as Creator and have a relationship with him as Creator whatever that means to you you can go to God as light mhm and have relationship with him as light whatever that means to you right but to go to him as father you have to go through Christ and the interesting thing is this yeah a lot of people don't understand that distinction and they assume it's the same thing that is the difference between religion and relationship right we have a relationship with God because we go to him as our father so we say Aba father yeah Jesus Christ says that which uh uh child will ask his father for for for bread and the father will give him Stones right yeah your father in Heaven Knows the things that you need right we deal with God like a father Yeah the more you deal with God like a father right the more your relation you are in a relationship with God you can deal with God even Christians a lot of Christians deal with God from a religious place not as father as Lord as Master yeah as Savior but not as father right God's will God's intention yes is the Bible says that we have been predestined to be conformed to the image of God right that Christ may be the first born amongst many Brethren right that is the relationship God desires from us he doesn't want minions yeah right he doesn't want slaves he wants a family I agree however all the other religions want to be a family with God no no no no actually that's that's the difference though that's what they want the Buddhist for example or the E religions forgive me I don't I'm not an expert on them there's a lot of emphasis on enlightenment and knowledge correct right that when men um reach a certain level of Enlightenment right they will Ascend to a higher plane of existence right it has nothing to do with a father right yes but it has everything to do with like the Creator a Creator a higher being quote unquote Christianity doesn't say you cannot have a relationship with the Creator hello sir little more can I I I think don't tell me what CHR what's okay sorry no I I I want I have I have a c man we really up shots fired I'm just joking like me um you know um I have a controversial take because you said something that struck a cord in my heart you said you have to deal a lot of Christians even Christians they call him father they don't deal with him as a father yeah is it possible that a lot of people that call him Creator they might use that word but they deal with him as a father thank you such a good point I'm here for you I got it's a very good point but I don't know the extent to which you know the other religions and how they deal with God how they interact with god let's talk about Islam because that's I know Islam for sure they call him a father I know the extent by which Christians we supposed deal with God and it's not as father well as a genie well well I don't agree with that I mean so so so so so guys guys right I think it's important that we are um we are aware right that this is what the Bible says and this is what people do right this does not change this 100% yeah 100% the Bible does not Bend to fit and this is what the Bible says nobody comes to the father except through Christ now this is interesting thing you can go through Christ and refuse to deal with him as father exactly but what Christ gives you access to is that kind of relationship this is the thing right a lot of religions right and let me not specify don't deal with God from that P from that place the Bible says perfect love cast out all fear God has not given you the spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind right for God so loved the world with god with God a lot of what he does comes from a place of love some religions scuffer that I agree right love is not the defining trait of the god that they worship right um um Mercy right is only for the particularly deserving yeah and and I'm not talking with any indepth knowledge I'm talking very superficially I for example I was born my my mother was Muslim right so I had some um light interaction with Islam not not deep that I could speak authoritatively on it I can't in any way shape or form but the impression that I have right is that seeing God or dealing with God as father is not the intention dealing with God as Creator as um um Almighty whatever right is more the intentions dealing with God as the source of blessings Genie is the intention of some people I don't know what their intentions are yeah right but I can tell you this the intention of God through Christ is to bring us into a relationship where he is a father to us his children I can I don't have to um antagonize you right to be a Son of God it is not inherent in my existence in my membership of God's family that I antagonize you if you choose to be antagonized by me yeah then you've got a problem not me I can love you right with all my heart with everything that I have I can love you even though you do not want to interact with God as a father right so if you say that my wanting to interact with God as a father is a rejection of you right how am I rejecting you can interact with him as a father too right if that is what Islam is about good luck to Islam well I don't I've never heard one Muslim no they talking about Muhammad right as being the the the uh the the prophets peace be onto his name and all that I've never heard a Muslim saying I want to know God as my father right I've never heard a Buddhist say that I've never heard um any of the other yeah I guess inter and forgive me for I guess what I'm trying to highlight is like I have met a lot of Christians honor God R and say say it I I'm trying to make a difference between a distinction between just saying things yeah okay so those are two different points yes and and but that but that's to me that's the point that matters cuz you can say whatever you want the point that that I took offense at was the idea that my faith right was a how do you frame it um there that Christianity is a it's offensive it's offensive yes I I I I still have that point then whoever is offended by it does not understand it why do you think is offensive and the reason why I say that is because again based on that I see it in a different line now that you said it but but my original thought is if you want to know if you want to know the Lord right you have to come through Jesus also if you want to get to heaven you have to come through Jesus right and so in the same way I think that Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life and so if Jesus Christ is the only way every other way is a false way a false way to so automatically it becomes offensive every okay so every other way is a false way to the father to the father right yes every other way is a false way to the father to to the father but not to God let me read the of do you want to read because a God puts eternity in in in the heart of every no no no no let me read the verse of scripture to you I I I want to just say something about people knowing god I'm learning a lot Psalm 19 vers1 yes say the heavens declar the glory of God the skies proclaimed the work of his hands day after day they per for speech night after night they reveal no knowledge they have no speech they use no words no sound is heard from them yet their voice goes out into all the Earth their are words to the end of the world in the heavens God has pitched a tent for the son that's Psalm 19: 1 to4 what that Psalm is saying is this the heavens tell God's story right without speaking a word word without making a sound without any speech the heavens tell God's story right there is no corner of the Earth where God's story is not being told right why would we then think yeah that nobody else knew of God except Christians the heavens are telling God's story right the firmament as showing forth his handiwork if you study the stars right you will know about El him the creator of the heavens and the Earth yeah so Christianity cannot say that the only way to know God is through Christ when the heavens declare his glory the only way to know God as father the only way to have a relationship with God is through Christ right Christ is the way the truth and the life and nobody comes to the father except through him full stop I this is the last question to wrap this up do you think that you can get to have without knowing Jesus absolutely not because can I tell you why I'll tell you why because heaven is the abod of God right Heaven is the abod of the father nobody gets to the father through Christ and interestingly not all religions are trying to go to Heaven by the way I hope you know that not everybody trying to go to Heaven There are some religions who don't even believe in heaven they believe you're just going to keep going through a revolving door of of lives yeah right so even the Assumption right that everybody is trying to go to heaven is is flawed nobody not everybody saying to go to heaven but in this in this in this particular scenario right where there's tension between a Believer and um a non-believer let me just put it as that yes the solution to that tension yeah is not war with this person I agree with that right the solution to it is to love the person right love the person I can we disagree all the time we just disagreed now yeah I can love you right I don't you make your choice my job is to put the truth in front of you choose the truth or don't choose the truth after that I love you the Bible says be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect right the verses before that says he causes the rain to fall on the believer and the unbeliever he causes the shine the sun to shine on the evil and the righteous that is when you are like God when you are indiscriminate in your love what we want to do yeah is to cause the rain to shine to fall and the sun to shine only on the people that we think deserve it right only on the people that we think are on the right path evil God says they are evil but he gives them the same benefit the rain and the sun right critical for productivity he gives it to them so why would you right ostracize a member of your family right why would you think that that is the way to do it when your heavenly father does not work like that that's my problem problem yeah I I have a totally different problem so I don't think I your problem is about the Christians who don't see God as no not necessarily my problem is you said the only way to to God to God is as a father as the father is through Christ yeah and the only way to heaven I did I didn't say it the Bible says it Jesus Christ said it yes and I agree yeah so and what so what does that look like what does what look like the only way to God to the father is through Christ yes what does that look like am I are you asking about the relationship with the father are you asking about the way because I'm asking because I guess I can be very blunt I'm asking because is getting is getting to Heaven by what you say or who you are so again right Jesus Christ no by who you know sorry sorry I miss that again is getting to Heaven what you say or by who you know it is by who you know is by what you say being a reflection of who you know okay so if people said the heart with the heart we believe onto righteousness and with the mouth we confess onto salvation okay so my my conundrum is I feel like we've I'm interpreting this conversation that's putting Christianity on the pedestal because you utter words I'm sorry audience because you utter words does not mean you know that can't be possible yeah no I I agree I agree I agree doesn't mean that you might not utter words I so so this is coming from a place right and I'm being a bit judgy here right but it sounds like it's coming from a judgy place no right so let what I mean by that right people people grow in knowledge yeah right people are taught certain things right the the criteria yeah for a and let's be clear folks Jesus did not come because of heaven heaven is not the goal the goal is relationship right Heaven is a side um benefit a par of that relationship right it is eternity with God right being united with God right the issue that a lot of folks have is they have been taught they have been told yeah accept that Jesus died for you and the way that you accept that is to respond to an alter call in church and say certain words right and then on your way out of the door they will ask you to wait in a room a pastor is going to come talk to you and invariably that conversation can last a minute and it can last a few years but the content of that conversation will many times determine how you proceed on the journey and what most people encounter are a list of rules and regulations right and what that immediately does to you is take you off the path that you raised your hand to get on but it is not an intentional stepping away from the path I agree right it is an accidental stepping away from the path because they were taught different they were not they were thought wrong right you accept that Jesus died for you Paul said to the galatian church he said what you have started in the spirit what makes you think you will complete In the Flesh what happens is that people will receive an alter call let's be generous and say they received it in the spirit and then they leave church after that service and try and live out their lives by their own strength right and that is when you now start to see Christians who are saying things but not leaving it they don't know that they are on the wrong path they think that they are doing the right thing trying to um do the right thing trying to um walk the Narrow Path they they are not conscious right of the they're not conscious that and by no means was I imply that yeah yeah but that's the thing though right we have to be so we have I was just doing I was following your stating no the truth yes but okay but we have to be careful to understand that that somebody Falls from Grace right is not necessarily an intentional fall I agree so I have been look well me I I got saved in 1993 M right it was me and God in the middle of nowhere then I join a church right when I get back to Lagos and I join a denomination and it it the journey started in Earnest and really it was moving from grace and love that was the first thing the Lord spoke to me about the first book I ever read was on the love of God right my first interaction with a Christian was somebody talking to me about the love of God and then I just move on to this path of obedience you're a soldier the Army you take orders obey the last order and that life and what that did for me was that it put me on a path that separated me or tried to separate me from the love of God right and the consequence of it if you had met me two years ago 10 years ago you would have been like I would have been one of those Christians right I was wrong but I was sincerely wrong right yeah so so so when I say it sounds a bit um judgy right I said I'm I'm being judgy and it sounds a bit and I'm accusing you of being judgy right because when you come to a place where you understand that we are saved by grace through faith not by works lest any man should boast it is a gift when you come to a place where you understand that salvation is that when you come to place where you understand that right standing with God comes from an acceptance of what Jesus Christ did on the cross of Calvary then you look at the folks who are um who are the religious leaders right the ones who know the truth right and then insist on keeping everybody on that path right you know something about Jesus Christ we always talk about how Jesus didn't bother with the Sinners right you know Jesus didn't flug any siners it was the religious leaders he fugged but he he hung out with some of the religious leaders MH wasn't all of them he he he vilified H with some of them because even some of those guys were sincerely wrong right so those who are of the household of Grace have to be charitable right in their disposition to the household of whatever it is we want to call them right and that lack of Charity yeah can if we're not careful put us exactly in that same place and and I sorry I you want to highlight something so no way shape or form am I the statement I made that it's not necessarily two words it is still knowing Christ am I trying to judge okay what I'm saying what I'm trying to emphasize is I know we have to wrap up um trying to emphasize is you can have not that actions are wrong right but because you honor God with your lips or let me you say because I honor God with my lips or because I have all the right right actions Christ can still look at me and said thank you for all you have done I don't to you guys' word know you I'm saying whether you are whatever it is that you are I I would beg that make sure your worship is in spirit and in truth make sure you want you are trying to deal with the father because I feel like if your intention is to deal with the father I feel like you will inevitably find Christ but that's just me to that's an assumption to make what I'm saying is that because we are Christian doesn't mean that we know know Christ and because someone is Muslim mhm doesn't mean that they don't have the ability that's what you guys are saying to know him I'm just saying we have to be care where was he going was and and but I want to make that con because I know that's why I can hear you but now I'm about to go left you about you about to go left yeah I could see that but I want to make that distinction because it's it's it was very it was very important to and I thought I felt like the conversation was going to a religion versus a religion but I thought it was it should be more so to your point about a relationship so like Muslims or Buddhist or Christians I mean right but if it's personal anyway I just want to I let me know I I I we have to w i I hear you right but I want want us to end this episode right other than the usual Pleasant pleasantries right by by pointing out that Jesus Christ really H is the way the truth and the life and the term Christian was originally used right to describe people who were loving in their interactions with one another it is because of the love that you show to one another that men will call you my disciples yeah right but that term has changed over time it has become a term used to describe people who are adherents right of a particular Faith yeah now if you say I Believe In Christ yeah that makes you a Christian in those days to say you believe in Christ is not what made you Christian it is the love that you showed to one another and it's almost most weird because every Christian should know that the expression of our faith the Bible says I think is in book of Galatians says neither circumcision nor uncircumcision profits anything neither obedience to the law or not obeying the law profits anything the only thing that matters is Faith walking through love and and that is why I was asking about that auntie and her family right is there faith in God right walking through love all through arguments and contention and possibly now ostracizing the person right Faith Works through love if you are believing trusting God for my salvation your faith that God will save me should be expressed in the way that you love me so we're asking God to save the world but we talk so much so confidently about hating the world and hating the people in the world and hating the sinners in the world and and not allowing them to weaponize empathy and we're calling empathy a sin that's a beautiful beautiful place to end it um I agree thank you guys for watching for watching we do actually have a video compain it as well so I know sometimes we you guys listen and we appreciate the listens but you can check P PFC fit is like dripping is always killing it even though I look like a house boy but check out the video and and whose fce is that exactly on YouTube 100% just just so that we're clear and you don't look like HB you look like the supporter of a fielded organization wow well anyways thank you guys for joining for joining us we will see you all next time fed organization Aral isn't that is that we're not a filed organization what are you we're not a f organization unfilter