(0:00)Welcome back & catch-up
unfilter hello hello hello and welcome back to pf1 filtered how are you guys feeling that's season I'm good I'm yeah I'm great it's uh it's been a minute we missed you P for I didn't miss you I figured I just know he missed me but I know he did not miss today I'm soad how did you figure that you know I got a little gift when you walked in here today okay okay so yeah okay yeah I missed you but we're glad to be back um enjoyed our little break but we're ready to get into it before we get started I was going to ask you guys how are you guys feeling about the rest of the year like you go first almost over um first of all I want to say something that production about they said that sh and I look like couples that are fighting and we are doing marital counseling and I'm your Mar counsel is our counselor body language she has been disturbing me yeah I don't understand so so what what do you think is the problem I think so the thing is he she doesn't let me talk she doesn't let me talk she doesn't listen to me that's the problem with this relationship might have to do with the
(1:25)The 'Are you fighting?' production feedback
fact that you're married to someone else honestly that's actually really good point by the way shout out to you that's a big problem I said yeah yeah shout out to you just playing you better you better be wife I love but know for real how you guys doing how you guys feeling about the end of the year coming up and just you know for for us for church um as we get closer to the year it get it get gets busier so um we're we're ramping up towards the end of the year towards the busiest time of the season so we're looking forward to it we're kind of excited about what the Lord is going to do what typically can we say it now or what what what should we look for you know when it comes to like church obviously there's Thanksgiving Christmas stuff yeah anything else that we should well Thanksgiving Christmas stuff all of those things take a lot of energy there's a lot of prep involved you know the thing we we have such a great team you know working on the back end that they make it look like it's such an easy um it's so easy they make it look easy but the truth is there's a lot that goes into every one of those events and very in a very small space we have Thanksgiving we've got Christmas and then we do a watch Night Service that's a New Year's Eve service and then we do a first Sunday of Christmas service now all of these are special services and usually before December all the special services are spaced out but then in December you've got like four in the space of like 3 weeks it's it takes a lot of planning back to back to back it gets very intense very very intense shout out to all of you that are the Lord work yeah thank you um what are you looking forward to obviously PF on filters you know I miss you guys a um this is fun this is always nice um and then the year kind of winding down I feel like it was busy for me um still busy yeah still busy I enjoy Christmas I enjoy Thanksgiving but just the fact that something's about to end feels kind of like refreshing but something is about to start yes so is anything really ending it's continuous I want Depot but that's not what we're talking about today that's not what we're talking about today um so I guess we'll just get into it um wait wait wait wait what about you you you ask us question as do I have to answer
(4:02)Are we loved by God or by Man?
you just you have two heads why should we answer you want exactly cuz I'm special cuz I'm loved let me not say that but okay cuz you guys will ask me now sh people are not loved by God Bo cuz I going to say cuz I'm loved by God but um which what would you prefer Love by man or Love by God please that's actually very honest question coll both of it both by God and by man yeah God loves you will men not love you is it always so not really cuz men did not even love Jesus when I knew that that was the example with my head too like Jesus was not but then he called himself son of man but he wasn't loved by man yeah but he loved man he came to his own and his own rejected him and he said that they'll reject us because they rejected him I didn't reject him but he also grew in favor with God and with man yeah so collab both how do you reconcile that I don't want to take away from the topic but I feel that's a good point how do we reconcile what the favor that Jesus had he got favor from man and God but he wasn't loved by man no he got favor from man and from God up to the point where his ministry started and once his ministry started he started to confront the religious Elite of the society and automatically that favor turned into hatred and the hatred was necessary to fulfill his calling so to speak
(5:32)When love becomes a hindrance
sometimes when people love you it's a hindrance more than it's a propellant thinking about relationship I go say you see you love me it's not helping you're not helping me no but you know right it's like your parents right your parents can love you to the point where they come an obstacle to your progress you know love can manifest as fear right so you love your child and you become afraid of the world hting your child so you want to keep your child safe but in trying to keep that child safe you limit the child's ability to fulfill its potential so love can become an obstacle as opposed to being a propellant feel like a lot of kids and parents can you know when you hear that I feel like you can be oh okay yeah that's that's that's the contradiction of parenting you know loving your children to the point where you just have to let let them go it's hard yeah anyway let's right let let's go somewhere else yes so um as always sorry I apologize this is obviously season two no right are you kidding I thought it was season one wow is it we've had a whole season let's go and verify let's go and verify um but I just wanted to quickly give a shout out obviously to our engaged listeners um that's been great obviously they know where to get us the the all the platforms the listening platforms um You Yes actually all the feedback we got during the break was very nice very we had a lot of positive feedback some very constructive criticism I've been told that I talk over you guys so I need to quit that somebody actually said I don't listen to your questions I just you know just uh ride rough short over you guys that's a lie I remember I felt bad when they said that so I prom I said I was going to be nice somebody said some said don't even let you guys finish I just cut you off like like what rubbish are they talking you guys talk some rubbish sometimes you get rubbish tund says some things I do say some rubbish sometimes I'm lie you what you're feeling like a div I'm I'm a little concerned about this about this new Vibe should have given me the cake yes yes okay okay next time no cake for you yeah or or cick for you there you go and she won't feel as special and then she'll just T it down gotcha gotcha we'll balance it out exactly all right sorry now we're going to get started one more he's just messing with you actually all right um so as we always do we have a conversation before we come here um I think this one to which I'm not privy to which PF has no idea it's kind of it's kind of hurtful why I mean people talk we're supposed to be like a team and then you go off and talk PF on filtered yes but you guys talk without PF yes we're talking with you you're not talking about me we are talking about you my like a in a good way how is that a good way because we're talking it's like it's like when we were getting set up for this you saw those guys aqu and the guys and and they saying oh tund looks good sh looks good and then when he came to he said Whispering yeah but like what's that you always look good cuz you always look good that sounds very very out loud that's kind of like what people say to you when they're about to something well we don't say bad things about you when we have just stop talking about me behind my back okay say to my face okay we got you that's what we're about going forward say to your face we always say to face we don't always say it to okay we're going to say it to your face now I'm sorry okay no but for real um we always have a conversation CH and I before we come in here and talk to PF cuz he has no idea what we're going to talk about same as today um but this time around when we had the conversation I feel like this was maybe the shortest one prep wise um we just kind of said this is something we want to talk about and we'll bring it here um so I'm just going
(9:46)Defining moments that shape us
to get started so everyone has like defining moments in their lives right like things that truly like shape them or change things for them they have like a like they can look at their lives and say oh In This Moment like life changed for me for some people it's when they got married some people when they have their first child and they feel this certain kind of responsibility for some people it's when they experience trauma um for me personally um it was actually
(10:16)Losing my mother at 12
when my mom passed away so it was actually death that kind of caused like it's a huge defining moment for my life and my faith um a lot of times when people experience death or any kind of trauma and they are believers they can either go far away from Jesus or they go to Jesus right um for me this was a huge um push for me to kind of pursue Christ because my mom was like super involved with our lives um because my dad actually worked in a different state came home every weekend but like my mom was the main parent like the primary parent um it sounds bad but logically I probably would have understood if something happened to my dad cuz it's like oh he's traveling every weekend this is this is not out of the ordinary of some something that could happen but for me that was like the one person that was always going to be there and then all of a sudden she wasn't and I think I realized for the first time in my life like and I was 12 that people can die like that are young like not your grandparents like people can pass away and they can leave even if they don't want to and I think I was just like the only thing that I can anchor or hold myself to is Jesus Christ um because I was like literally that's the only person that has died and risen again and so is alive so cannot leave me um now I want to ask how would you like speak to anyone who is going through grief and they're asking in and they're they're a Believer they believe in Christ but they're like this is a good God how can he let this happen that's a really um I think that's a very that's a question that is a constant right in in our lives and it's not just when somebody dies it's when we experience any kind of pain you know any kind of hardship
(12:25)Processing grief as a Believer
um I also at a very I would say early I think I must have been in my very early 20s maybe 21 or 22 or something when I lost my younger sister she was 18 when she passed away um and then subsequently I lost my sister-in-law who I was very close to after I became a Christian and then I lost my mom on Christmas Eve on Christmas day I was actually writing my sermon for the Christmas day service when my brother called me and said my mother had passed so this is a uh this is one of those things that you know personally not just experience not just from you know other people's stories and the Bible says that we do not mourn like unbelievers mourn and I think for me that was the Comfort I have dedicated my life to serving God right I I don't do anything else except serve God and so for me when my mother passed and when my sister-in-law passed right it was a test of what I believe if I I believe these things that I tell people then what is my reaction you know to this very traumatic news and both of them my mother and my sister-in-law passed you know they'd been uh they'd had cancer uh my sister-in-law had um breast cancer and um I don't remember the other type of cancer she had but she had two cancers my mother had um I think it was either uterine or ovarian cancer and and those things get are very painful and they're drawn out you know and I remember when I heard about both women passing it was really really very very painful like painful shaking the core of your being because a my mother um As We Grew Older we we became really good friends and she was very spiritual you know she always prayed you know she would call me and pray for me you know she was very proud of the fact that I had become a pastor you know and she she leaned into it you know um my sister-in-law was like my my counselor you know I would call her and say Hey ify you know I read this what do you think I'm dealing with this what do you think and when she passed I became much closer to her husband interestingly but while she was alive I was pretty close to her and these were good Christians right they weren't you know they weren't feral Christians they weren't you know Sunday Sunday Christians these were people who were who took their Christianity seriously they were kind people they were generous people I could not see any reason I'm sure with your mom why um God will take them right but the reality or the truth is the truth yeah and that is that when a Believer passes yeah they do not go to hell they go and be with the Lord and you know the way the Lord described it to me is that when I was was in Nigeria and life was tough life was hard you know um I had a car that was a problem my house was a just full of problems and then I came to the Western World to America and life became so much easier on certain levels you know what I mean
(15:45)The 'moving back' analogy
and the Holy Spirit said to me one day that if any of your friends who were who you left behind in Nigeria said to you come back because you know they love you so much and they miss you so much would you go back and I was like never never and he said to me that that is what ify and your mom are experiencing right now right they are in a much better place they are not if I gave them a chance to come back they would not come back and that for me was consolation knowing where the people were right even though it hurt but knowing where they were and believing that they were where God says they are was what helped me deal with the um the pain of their of their absence right um when my sister passed it was a different story altogether then I didn't know I didn't know God I was you know I was on I was in university um I was not very I was very as far from God as you could possibly imagine and when she died we weren't religious at the time we weren't Christians like that my mother was Muslim before she converted to Christianity in fact it was her death that made my mother convert to Christianity and my father convert to Christianity my father was a Roman Catholic my mother was a Muslim we went to church Easter and some Sundays and we went to the mosque during the eids particularly when my grandfather was alive you know he was like Salah right oh my God it was fun you know with all dress up all the all the you know the grandchildren and I was the oldest grandchild you know it was just mad fun um when she passed away everybody in my family my my my younger brothers and my parents became Christians right something about her passing drew them to God like it did for you for me it said oh boy this life is short you better enjoy to the max so I literally revved up whatever it was I was doing exponentially so if I was bad I became terrible you know and that was how I coped with it you know I I drowned my sorrow with drinking and whatever and a bunch of stuff so I didn't even have time you know to really think about it I I I I tossed all caution to the wind you know so if anybody is going through loss and wondering why why does stuff happen there two things number one this is the world we live in right it is the reality of this world we we are born and we will pass and there's no promise as to the timing of the passing there's no promise as to the manner of the passing so to speak we things have happen in this world and we are all basically marching towards it I don't mean to sound gloomy for a first episode but we're all Marching In some ways towards our end and for some people the end will come earlier than for others I can't explain why people good people go I can't explain why people go early I sometimes like to think that okay well God is protecting them from something or they assignment is finished you know we come up with all sorts of reasons that don't really hold water you know if you poke at some of those reasons that we come up with to explain why people die early you find out that those reasons don't really hold up it helps with the coping it helps some people some people that annoys them oh okay my my one of my sister-in-laws when their elder sister if he passed away somebody said to her that oh you know your sister is such a a good person you know God just wanted her to be by his side I said why doesn't God tell your own sister to be by his side why is it my sister that God wants by his side you know what I'm saying and you know when you're in pain you don't really want to hear any of those things um so really when I I'm counseling with somebody who just lost somebody I don't try and explain it because I have no explanations for it I just want to comfort them in any way that I can Comfort them but there are limitations to how I can Comfort them I'm not going to lie to them right and tell them that oh I know why this person died or why that person you know what I mean I'm just going to be like I'm here for you if you need anything I'm here for you you want me to pray with you you want me to if you want to vent if you want to scream I I am here so I said one we have to face the reality that this is the life we live people will die and many times they will not die when we want them to die right but there's the other side too if you die in Christ you are confident you can be confident of where you are going right if a loved one dies in Christ we can take consolation in where they going and that we will meet them again right and I don't know if that is any consolation to folks but for me it was a great consolation knowing that my a that my mother who I know how much pain she was in I I know how much pain she was in that she's no longer in that pain it was consolation to me that she would not suffer on this Earth right and then go somewhere and be suffering or go somewhere and it's just nothingness you know what I'm saying to to know that she was transitioning from Pain to wholeness was very comforting to me um and also the same thing for my sister-in-law she also was in a lot of pain so to know that okay they have transitioned away from this life that is in their last year maybe even two years was nothing but pain and medication and doctor to doctor and people coming in and feeling sorry for you you know and and fear and a lot of very negative emotions to think that for them all that was over I I was I was happy for them you know that they don't have to deal with these things anymore and if in my own selfishness I miss them do I want them to come back into that kind of pain no so so that was how I dealt with it and that's how I would say to anybody look if you're going through this know that a you're not the only one know that this is inevitable for all of us at some point right my father is 80 years old any day now they could call me God forbid but any day now they could call me and say he's he's gone you know he's uh he's in he's in Christ I'm good right I know that I'll meet him again so my he's like he's 80 but he's agile Strong mobile you know we say that but when you're 80 you're 80 man I mean yeah when you're 18 you're 0 I mean I woke up this morning with back pain so yeah when you the human body is the human body you know we can we can we can we can we can stretch out things right but the truth is it's a it's a downward it's a it's we a slope and it's a downward slope just to take it a step further if you don't mind show so like I was following you when you were saying what consoles you is the fact that you know that if they're in Christ that's the big condition that they are they are with the Lord yeah and hypothetically stop we know if we're in Christ that being with the Lord is 10 billion times better than being here right so what do you think in your opinion for those of us that are in Christ still find ourselves attached to this material world even though we know that there is a better place like what what still causes us to hold on to this world so much okay or do we know do we not know we just saying that we I I think it's two things I think God has coded into us a a zest for life and a hunger for life life is hard if we didn't have that hunger for life we would have died many times there's a tenacity that is required to survive on this planet that every human being has otherwise at the first obstacle you just lay down and die right so I think there's a physiological clean ining to life that we all have um very few people willingly submit to death you know particularly in their youth we resist this as much as we can and I think we're supposed to resist it but in order to resist it there has to be a driving force on the inside of us right and sometimes that driving force can become overwhelming overwhelming sorry and we don't look Beyond life right that's number one number two I think that there a lot of people who come to Christ because of the material and immediate blessings that they receive and have never really contemplated what it means right in terms of Eternity and so the idea of Eternity right is something that people a lot of people don't think about a lot of people in Christ don't think about we are very conscious of I need a house I need a car I need a husband I need a wife I need a job I need this now we're very conscious of now and I think to some degree that is fine right because again in order to exist you have to care about your existence and our existence there's purpose to our existence right so I don't think God wants us just you know falling off the planet willingly you know but I think a lot of people don't think about it you know and I think that the church focuses a lot of its attention on now right on the here and the now and and I don't think that's a bad thing when you die you will get there you know I don't there's no need to think about it you will get there so you were saying um you're talking about how like for you um knowing that they were in a better place like kind of brought you comfort um I guess I'm I'm trying to process like a person who has lost someone and is like while I know that they are good I still have pain like the pain I'm still living with that and how do I like how do I process that and how do I navigate like dealing with the pain the actual pain that I feel um especially as sometimes cuz I think some people think like oh you know it's sad something sad happens you lose someone and then cry you'll be sad and then eventually you'll be fine but like grief is like comes in waves you could be a perfectly good day you remember something you smell something you hear music it comes back again can have a really good day and be like oh my gosh I forgot and even have like some guilt of should I still be sad yeah yeah um yeah navigating that as a Believer um I guess how would you encourage someone like just going through the process like honestly it's it's a very um it's different for everybody I I told you guys my mom passed on Christmas day right that must have been 2012 2013 I'm horrible with numbers Christmas has not been the same for me since then every year I get this Melancholy you know I'm just sad on Christmas days it's even when everybody celebrating but I think last year probably was the first Christmas that I had a really really um and that was when there was every all all my whole family everybody was around you know um so so this is what I I I I I I do with folks I pray for them that the Holy Spirit Will Comfort them in the way that they need comfort some people what they need is to talk you know talk about it right when you're feeling it share it with somebody talk about the person you know share your memories about the person with somebody who you know who um who who knows them or who cares about you or who cares to listen to you I think it doesn't help when we bottle our feelings up and don't express them if you want to if you feel you know like crying I would say then go ahead and cry if you feel like talking go ahead and talk right whatever you need to do right to to express your grief I think you should go ahead and do it right and it's different with each person and different at different stages the the further away you get from the event the less um imminent the pain is the less you know it starts to fade a little bit but it never really goes away do what you need to do just do not let the grief overwhelm you do not let the grief start to determine the choices you make right because you still have to live you still have to honor that person's life with your progress with your success in the things that you have um you have taken on the responsibility you've taken on you know I I think of my mom and I'm like man I want her to be proud of me right I remember there was one service we had in church my brother and I my brother was there and um it was I think the most um profound service we've ever had presence of God was strong people were worshiping you know the room was packed and my brother and I we for some reason we just turned and looked at each other in that moment and it was just um in my mind what I was thinking I we didn't talk so I don't know what he was thinking but I was just thinking if my mother could be here you know if my mother could be here you know she would see that I had become the pastor that she always wished I would would be she always prayed I would be you know but she wasn't but my brother was you know and I went to my brother you know and we hugged each other and we stood in that place for that moment and we and you know people were worshiping and it was a dark room you know and people couldn't see us but both of us kind of were crying you know in that moment and there was some cathartic relief you know from from the tears in that moment and you you will have lots of those kinds of moments you know it helps if you have somebody to share those moments with you know somebody you can pick up the phone and call and say I was just thinking about mom you know do you remember that time you know that Mom said that Dad said that brother said that sister said that friend said you know I find that those are the things that help me you know when you can pick up the phone and and talk to somebody about it that talking to for me gives uh it turns the tears into a smile you know you know what I mean cuz more often than not you remember even the tough times you remember them with fondness you know um so that that's that's how I do but I pray for people specifically that the Holy Spirit Will Comfort them because I know that the Holy Spirit you know Jesus Christ said I will send you a helper the Holy Spirit helps us to deal with the challenges that life throws at us and one of those challenges is is death for me when my mom passed you know I I was WR I was writing my sermon and I I was like okay no I'm not doing this and the Holy Spirit said for me if you believe what you were just writing then what are you doing so I I so I went back and finished the sermon I couldn't sleep of course and I went to church and I knew that if I told anybody about it that would be the end of the service wh why because people would yeah yeah you know would get emotional yes you know I didn't say a word to anybody I preached the sermon great service and at the end of it you know I said my mom just pass cuz I wanted to honor her I didn't want her passing to just be a nonevent you know what I mean and then the grief you know um um um poured out and like I said Christmas is not the same but the best Christmases I've had since you past that the Christmases when I've been able to hang with family you know and my mom oh my mom loved Christmas man my mom every year my mom had a Christmas party every year we had a Christmas party in my house there was no year that there was not a Christmas party in my house there was always a crowd in my house for Christmas and it was my mother she loved J Love she loved parties I'm going to guess is Christmas your favorite holiday it used to be it used to be now it's a complex holiday for me but I enjoyed when there's that party atmosphere yeah you know last year my my wife's brother and his um five kids came from Kenya and they were with us my own immediate younger brother and his two kids were with us so we had in my house about how many what uh six eight adults actually all the kids are grown the youngest child yeah the youngest person in the room was like 19 you know it was just it was best best Christmas ever and then there was another year when my my two younger brothers were in town and they were in the house with the family you know it was just it was just fantastic so when I'm around family yeah when I'm talking about you I remember mommy remember Christmas remember this you know my mom loves Christmas man I you know she loved Christmas was hard it's it's so interesting because for me um and it's I feel like it's it's backwards because I was hearing you talking earlier on you getting emotional like I felt I felt moved um but sh CH knows this already my my own and lost like you said it's different for everyone our L my wife and I was earlier on this year you know we got pregnant right and yeah and oh yeah this might be the first time I'm telling you this I have no idea um and 12 weeks later maybe was there before was no longer there right um and it was one of those situations where I understand that miscarriages are common and it sucks um and the doctor was like okay guys you know it's not first of all no condemnation no shame it's nothing you could have done right um but for me it was almost what we noticed in that time was we had a the power of community people showed up you know when we we got vulnerable we told our closest friends and they just left everything are going showed up and as much as I appreciate that some part of me felt very like I didn't even get to experience the life before I lost it you know in a sense and then the second part was like the community was so powerful that we didn't feel we we were able to grief right in our own way I guess but and they didn't the committed didn't force that grief on us but at least for me I don't want to speak for my wife I felt like it wasn't fair that I didn't I couldn't grief more does that make sense fa to who to me like like I felt like cuz the the pain doesn't last and and you know you said earlier about how like you don't have to be meditating on death I I do that sometimes but not knowing destructive you know just that it happens right like you said what I felt was like the feeling of pain left too quickly so I feel like I wasn't able to properly mourn right that's do do do you think that one of the reasons why that may have happened you know and and I'm really sorry for your L I actually did not know about it and I'm really glad that there were people who who were able to to come around you but this is it possible that one of the reasons why you were able to move away from the pain not the memory from the pain of it so quickly was a because this was somebody you had not even gotten to know yet unfortunately miscarriages are unbelievably common in fact what I hear is that more babies are miscarried and actually born you in terms of percentage I'm not quite sure what the numbers are one in three is why I was told I'm not sure yeah I I think it's actually might be a little bit more than that it's actually I'm not sure but I've heard something about the the prevalence of it and it's of course you know I'm sure doctors it's due to so many different things that have nothing to do with you know but not knowing the person might be one of the reasons why not having any real memories with the person might be one of the reasons why and that is not necessarily neither here nor there it's just the reality of this situation you know what I'm saying somebody who was a lot of potential did not actualize that potential so that we loved the baby but we never really knew the baby yeah the loss I think will be different the pain I think will be different I don't think it's transient I don't think it's transient I think you know you have a tendency to overanalyze right I think you might be um what's the word overestimating your healing from it you may not feel anything in the moment but I can tell you this this is how many years after my sister passed my sister-in-law passed my mother passed the days when I feel nothing I don't even remember them and the days when it's as if they just died moments from that moment you know what I mean yeah I got you so the fact that you have you're not feeling it in this moment right and you haven't felt it as much as you think you should feel it does not mean you're not going to feel it right so just get ready for the possibility that you'll be laying down one day in your bed or you're out hanging with your boys and you have a drink and all the dreams you had for this kid will come flashing through your mind you know all the plans you had all the hopes and all the aspirations you have you know will come come flashing through your mind and you will have a moment you know what I'm saying right um but yeah I I think from a logical perspective I can see the logic of why it would not um it would it would be devastating but in a different kind of way not less devastating just a different kind of Devastation you know a different kind of pain but not less a different kind of pain is how I would describe it no I appreciate that I just I just never processed it enough and I just got I was I would get more upset that I wasn't able to like to your point I picked out a name I was so sure it was going to be a girl um and not to have experienced that and then losing it and then the outpouring of Love which was great on one hand felt like it stifled you stifled me from yeah yeah but again to your point I I actually I don't you could be could be very right that the time will come where you know that yeah full full force but anyway I and to to this point of community um I guess another question is because you know the Bible says like mourn with those who mourn um as a like as a Believer how do we show up um in community for people who have lost people because I think sometimes people are like I don't know how to help I don't know what to do um like what would be a way for them to love and support whoever is going through a loss I would share that I think um whenever my mom passed I think the initial reaction that I was given was well you have to be strong for your sister you have to be strong for your dad you have to and I just felt like I couldn't even cry and I remember a friend of mine from school because we're on holidays actually during Christmas too the holiday times um she came to visit me cuz her her mom had heard and they brought her and she just ran and hugged me and started she just started crying and I felt like that allowed me to cry and that was the first time I really cried and I just I just remember feeling like I'm free here like I can cry here um and it was just so like even though I was young it was just so like such so refreshing for me to be able to cry and someone that is like hey it's okay I'm crying with you I'm crying for you um and that was the first time I think I was even allowed I allowed myself to even cry about that um so for whoever is like hey someone I know is going through this but I really don't know how to help them what would you say you know I I was just reminded um one of the guests we're going to have this season is Luke brenlin Luke Brenin is a minister and you as you were talking I just realized that this is something that I have not experienced you know losing the child before the child is is is is born um or losing a child at all but um Luke did lose a child and we actually planned that we will talk about it when he comes on the show so that might be that'll be an opportunity for us to to speak about you know about it when he comes the the next time he's in town you already plugged that we're going to have special guest so actually he's going to be here in the next couple of weeks um the 18th actually yeah next weekend not next weekend the 20th the weekend of 20th and 19th so we C the episode when he comes or he comes here um so to what you were saying you know um we have a tendency right when people suffer loss to say be strong be strong be strong particularly if you are in a position of responsibility right because we feel that your the your expression of grief will cause everyone else to to just let loose and express grief and that comes from a very a mentality about sto you know being stoic you know everybody's stiff upper lip it's a very British um way of thinking you know don't don't show any emotions don't show any grief and so people bottle up grief right and then it comes around and it bites everybody because grief will is like water it will find a way out you can't contain it indefinitely you know so what I try to do is if somebody around me a member of our congregation has suffered a loss I will visit right and I will pray that God Comfort them I don't try to answer questions I don't have answers to the only thing I can answer is I don't know why this happened but I can tell you where this person is right I can tell you that if this person is a is a is um is in Christ I can tell you where they are if they're not in Christ I avoid the topic alog together right because that is not the that's not the place to be telling folks that your loved one is not in Christ and then you know some of these things the Bible talks about how people will be judged according to their conscience so I don't know if this is somebody who's been judged according to their conscience because they didn't hear the gospel and people say how can they not have heard the gospel they could have heard religion a lot of people have heard Christ the Christ of Moses right they've heard the Christ of the Old Testament they've not heard the good news of Christ and we don't make that distinction but I'm sure God makes that distinction right you can preach Jesus as if you're preaching about Moses right that there's no power in that yeah but if you preach Jesus as he should be preached then there's power in that so I don't know what they heard I don't know if they heard about the real Jesus or they heard about the Old Testament Jesus I don't think that makes any sense so I'm not going to sit down there and start saying oh this is where this person is or that is where that person is you know I'm just going to pray that God should comfort you as a community what do they need in that moment sometimes it is just is there is helping them to not have to think about the the basic B things of life like food like bills right like what to do with this bill what to do with that situation and just rising up and taking those things off their back so that they can have the space right to feel and to to think about um what has just happened to them because if you are crying over your loss of a person and then you're also crying about money to bury the person right it can become very problematic in terms of how it affects you mentally so as a community we can step in and and and take off some responsibility from their shoulders right and not become a burden to them CU some people will come to your house and expect you to feed them right I'm going through this stuff and you're expecting me to be worrying about whether you have eaten or not eat before you come to my house yeah yeah you know eat before you go to the person's house you know and when you're there when you're there you know be sensitive to the person that you have come to comfort right are they in a place where they can tolerate jokes and MTH and mert right or do they still need that solemnness you know for a season because one of my frustrations was the idea that my mother so my sister would pass and it would be a nonevent you know that the world would just continue you know and not stop you know if you had come to my house at that time and you had been doing party right right I would have kicked you out of my house cuz you are basically saying oh this person's life didn't matter that's how I would have interpreted it you know so be sensitive to the to the to the to the to the to the person be sensitive to where they are be sensitive to how they are feeling and sometimes you're just sitting down there and Qui and and being quiet and sometimes you just leave them alone but let them know that you are there I guess you know it varies with each individual and ultimately I always pray that God what does this person need I went to see somebody a while ago who had lost a child and it appeared like you know the child had um had had um taken his own life and I didn't know what to say so how how old was early 20s I think and and you know good kid great family no problems you and it was so painful to see the parents you feel their pain and the last thing I was going to go and do is something TR you know some platitude you know that that would just be disrespectful so I I prayed and said Lord use me to comfort them and the words that I spoke right just un unknowingly address the questions that was on her heart you you know and that taught me a lesson that don't ever go into a situation right that is as sensitive and as important as somebody's loss somebody's grief you know flying off the seat of your pants you know be respectful and ask God to help you ask God to use you ask God to speak through you don't just go there open your mouth and say well you know something you saw on television or something you read you know in a hallmar card you know because you might just put your foot in it and do a lot more damage than you want to do and um so yeah that's what I would advise you know be sensitive to the spirit be sensitive to the people you know and know that you're going there to alleviate burdens not be a burden yeah I mean we didn't we didn't expect this episode to be this heavy but obviously the topic in itself it's a heavy topic it's a heavy topic and we can talk about it for for days but PF as always we appreciate you um if sh do you do you think I mean it yeah thanks for um talking with us um and I just just some encouragement for whoever is dealing with any kind of loss whether it's parent a child a spouse a sibling um and it sounds crazy but even the loss of you're mourning the loss of an idea or like just something that was big for for you and um and you just feel like life has stopped for a second and why is everyone else moving on um I just hope that you find some encouragement in this in knowing that um you're not alone in it um that God is with you and he can Comfort the way only he can that human beings will never feel the void um but that your community is there and they are also an expression of God's love for you thanks again p thank you T please yeah we'll see you guys next episode and enjoy the rest of your week and make sure you like subscribe yes all the platforms or if you like what you're listening to if it's challenging if you stop provoking obviously and if you don't like what you're listening to like PF said give constructive feedback you can even give destructive we don't want destructive keep it to constructive don't take destructive thank you um give feedback so if you give the feedback I'll block you anyway thank you guys and unfilter [Music]